SPEAKER_03 0:43

All right, here I am today with uh Carl Michaels. Hello throwback throwback DJ that still DJs, right?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Yeah, I'm still killing it. Just a throwback.

SPEAKER_03 0:54

You are killing it. He really is uh still really in the game, which is exhausting when I think about it. When did you start DJing?

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Uh when I was 17, I'm 50 now, so that sounds exhausting. 33 years of DJing. Um it's not exhausting. Sometimes everything's exhausting sometimes. But um no, if it if it was too exhausting, I wouldn't be doing it.

SPEAKER_03 1:18

True. True. What made you start DJing?

SPEAKER_01 1:23

I was just, it was sort of built in. Like uh when I was like 12, uh like 11, 12, like I would be in my bedroom um listening to like um the New York I got the New York channel in Bucks County, so we got like the the KT, like whatever the not the KTU, that's like LA. We got the good New York freestyle channels, and I used to and I fell in love with freestyle music. And then me and my friends, like later, like in junior high and high school, we would go like roller skating. We heard all this freestyle music, and I was obsessed with the idea of combining things. Even when I listened to the radio, I would just like pause, you know, like the pause mixtapes that we would make, like pause, and then it would go into the next song. Um, so I just kind of sort of floated in that, and then I and then I started to DJ, like you know, house parties for friends and stuff like that, and I got turntables and um and what year do you say that was?

unknown 2:24

Oh god.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

So wait, 33 years ago?

SPEAKER_01 2:27

33 years ago.

SPEAKER_03 2:28

So that's like 93.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah, so like 92, 93. Yeah. Um, um, so I I would say I officially kind of started using turntables and DJing um around that that time. I bought uh my grandmother had given all of us like um like a thousand dollars, like all the grandkids, and I went and I went and spent it all on that. I went and spent it all on speak like I got a sp a big speaker, I got a gem sound mixer, and a Gemini turntable, and um, yeah, and then my dad's like, yeah, and I was like, Well, this is I can make money from this, you know. Like I was young, I didn't know what I was talking about. And he goes, okay. But you can though, you know, well, that's the thing, is like he was like, Well, you can prove it one day, and um, and then yeah, then I started throwing raves and losing money on those, but but my dad was like, I appreciate your your spirit, you've you've really done well with this.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

So what was um so like compared to today, what was the scene like?

SPEAKER_01 3:34

So I don't really know because like I I DJ a lot now in um queer clubs and things like that. Um, but I also do a lot of different other things, but it would it was a rave scene, it was like kids throwing parties. Oh yeah, the party kids, yeah, and I threw a party in Ben Salem at a place called the Ben Salem Swim Club, and um it was just like a suburban swim club, and it was like there was an indoor space, and we paid the guy $2,000, and um we rented a sound system and we had a bunch of DJs. We had Frankie Bones and we had Carl K and we had D B from New York who was my favorite DJ at the time, and uh we would have made money, but um my friend Patty was working the door and she had the pee, and she left uh she left the cash box with just some person and they took a bunch of money. Oh my god. But anyway, it was a rave scene. It was like it was like it was it to me, it was so miss like mystical. It was like, wow, like this is a place where people really aren't judging you, and you can be a complete weirdo. Um, and I didn't even I don't think I even was weirdo enough for them, but like for the for like the for the crew, you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't I don't know how to put it, but um no, no, I can't even like I wasn't I wasn't that we I was like I I know what you mean I'm gonna be able to do that like I was I was a kid from the suburbs who just wanted who knew I was different in some way or another and felt like this is a place I could be accepted. And when I realized that a lot of it had to do with my queerness, um, you know, it it's funny because that scene, you know, there's a lot of people like on these internet groups um from like the old rave scene, the pleur, peace, love, unity, respect, who are like homophobes, you know what I mean? Like it's so it's a it was such a different time, but I felt you mean like now, right?

SPEAKER_03 5:31

Yeah, yeah, like like the guys that well it's all like yeah, so yeah, that that's another that's that's kind of I guess how things have changed. Things have changed. There's a scene that kind of has come back above the ground, right, right, and it's like angry and right.

SPEAKER_01 5:49

It's I mean there was there was a lot of whiteness, you know what I mean? Like it was it was things I didn't even realize at that time, but you know, there was a lot of privilege nestled in those rooms where people people were rebelling, but they were still they still had a lot of privilege, and a lot of them grew up to be the same privileged type person.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Yeah. And how do you feel that DJing has changed, like DJing itself in the last 33 years?

SPEAKER_01 6:16

I've actually learned this recently.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Um because you've had to keep up, you've that you've been around now, you've had to keep up with a few things.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

I forget like whole periods, but but I use I use vinyl, um, and I love playing vinyl. And I just recently found out again how much I love playing vinyl, because I did a vinyl gig a few uh uh back in June.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

You have a lot of vinyl?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

No, not anymore. Um, but I had enough to do, you know, to do a gig and I went and people were like freaking out. Like they really loved like what I was doing, and it made me so happy. And I realized that you know, there it's like riding a bike, it's very simple. I just I just was like, oh, all right, I haven't played vinyl in 10 years. Here I go. And I just like played it.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Um and the people want it because that's how people work, right? I feel like they get tired of things and want things back, yeah. And you and they want some want the realness.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah, and even like when I was playing it, I was like, wow, these records do they're louder. You know, some of the you know, you realize that sometimes it's like more organic, the sound. I don't know if that's really true, but it felt like that.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

You're right. No, you are right. Like records are the best um sound you can get, I'm pretty sure, because of how much um in that groove is recorded.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

And you're directly connecting. I feel like you're directly connecting to the wavelengths.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Yeah, it's like, yeah, it is that, and it it is about frequencies and it's all that it's all that technical like sound stuff that I think it's like a known thing. I mean, you're gonna get all the everything from I guess the case.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Yeah, it's like a brighter sound, it's like a more thorough sound. Um, and then there was CDs uh and the CDJs that came about. Yeah. Um, and I liked I I liked my CD books, but then you would get, you know, bad MP3s, just like we do now. Right. Um, but that then we got through that, and then now I do love to show up with a thumb drive and headphones if I can. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, and then and and I had to learn so I would I was doing that, and then I was like, oh, I guess I gotta buy a controller because I gotta do these other gigs, and you know, I don't want to show up. I don't want to bring like five different things, I'd rather bring one. Yeah. So the controller is uh Yeah, so those started being a it's a necessary sort of it's not an evil, but it's just a necessary thing. I I I don't love it, but I don't love the all-in-one concept. I'm just like I kind of just miss the booth.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Yeah. They're good, I guess, for um practicing at home if you can't afford all.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Well, no, yeah. I mean, and I've I've never I haven't not historically been able to afford much because I'm deeply irresponsible with money, but but um but but like at least I have something that I can use. And um, but that no, it's good for that, and it's good for mobile gigs. Like you know, I don't need to bring you know, all this stuff to like if I'm doing a friend's wedding or if I'm doing a a simple mobile gig where they just need music, you know, like it's not like a you know, it's not like a sort of music-centric event for lack of a better way to put it.

SPEAKER_03 9:30

Yeah. Do you think in today's day and age, do you think it's easier to be successful being a DJ than it was before?

SPEAKER_01 9:42

No. Um I think before you could you could find your people and you could just a really hard question. Um you can be successful, but you can't just be successful with going out and just playing songs. You have to really have a point of view. Yeah. Unfortunately, you have to do a lot more these days. You have to do, you know, like I do my my stories, um, like my reels, like featuring people's music. Yeah, I love earworms. Yeah, earworms. Yeah, like I I like those. I don't know how much.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Yeah, content comes along. There's more, there's more, there's way more DJs. I feel like um, like to go off this question, I feel like like when MM came out, all of a sudden everybody was a rapper.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Remember? And I feel like that happened, like the pandemic. All of a sudden, people got pandemic. Something happened where all of a sudden everybody was a DJ.

SPEAKER_01 10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:41

Technology, and then all of a sudden everybody was a DJ. So there's so many of them. Um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

And I'm not faulting people for that.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

But there is also like all the extra work, like you're saying, that goes along with being successful, where back in the day there was probably not as many DJs.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

No, there weren't. And I and I worked and I just found myself working for 611, which was like the rave record store. Yeah, and I got I got gigs from that. But I was also good at my, you know, I was also good. So um you have you have to be good at what you do. So I'm not knocking any any like of the younger or newer DJs, not even younger. I but but sometimes I look at flyers and I'm like, who the f are all these people? Like, and it's not to it's not to be it's not to knock anybody. I'm just like I I can't keep up. Yeah, no, there's so many people.

SPEAKER_03 11:36

Well, everybody, well, every think about what was happening in the 90s. I feel like now it's like a bunch of that happening. Like it's a bunch of communities, like you were saying. What who was it?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Local uh it was local 13. Local 13.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

So like, but you know, there's only certain so many promoters.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Yeah, it was 6'11, local 13.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

But now it's like everybody wants to produce.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

Well, that's the thing, it's like it's like well, where we're at, anyways, I feel like which isn't which isn't a bad thing. It's great, everyone's expressing but it's a different thankful to be reached out by like a lot of different people, and I'm thankful that people still even notice that I'm still here. Like it does, it does get exhausting, and I don't know, like we, you know, people like you and I, we've been doing this for a while.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

And DJ and I've only been doing nine years in August.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

But but it just gets it just does get I don't want to keep telling people how long I've been doing this. I just but I'm just happy to be here. But yeah, but at the same time, I'm like, you know, when I hear like certain people knocking me about something, I'm like, you like part of the reason, you know, like there's people who helped you get where you are. Yeah, not helped directly, but like helped keep this shit in the air.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

What's something that you do like about today's um culture?

SPEAKER_01 12:59

I think people are much more cognizant of of uh of being respectful to other people. I really do. Like, I don't think you know, uh negating slight slightly negating what I just said. I think people just really have more people like looking out for you and respecting you in general for the work that you've done. Um and and I think people do tend to work well together. I think the challenge is what sometimes comes in with venues, because it's really sometimes you have to like, you know, you would have to like knock somebody out to get it kid to get a gig at a certain venue, you know what I mean? But um, but no, I think I think people are really generally friendly and they like to work together. I think we are all sort of attention uh overridden sometimes. Like I know I have ADHD and we're we're all trying to get back to everyone, and you know, I think people can maybe maybe make assumptions about uh people's intentions, but I think people really want to see people other people do well and they want to work with everyone. They can some people true, that's true.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

There's always a good point a lot going on.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

There's some people that are just gonna be bitter.

SPEAKER_03 14:17

Yeah. What is something that you feel that people think the DJ life is like, but like in reality, what it is?

SPEAKER_01 14:24

That people think it's just like constant jet setting. Like on paper, my last weekend looked like I was just partying in like Rehoboth Beach, you know, with friends, and then I DJ'd, and that's kind of what happened. But then when I DJ'd that, you know, like they closed the town basically, and it was hard to get there. And so there was like four people at the gig. And I'm not gonna say the venue because I don't want to like it's not it's not their fault.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

No, that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

It's not their fault, but like I I'm miserable at that gig because I'm just like I thought I was I I spent I spent money to get down here. I got an extra room night, like with my at my cousin's like beach house. Like I spent all of this energy and time coming down here, and while it was a lovely time, the gig, the whole reason I came down here was I was playing for four people.

SPEAKER_02 15:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

You know what I mean? So it can be it can be depressing. Nightlife. It really can be, yeah. My best friend is is a dancer and he does burlesque and go-go, and and he um you know, he says the same things. He's like, uh I sometimes I wish, you know, there's certain gigs I wish I didn't go to. It looks like a party, but I'm working.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Yeah. You know, yeah. And there's no one there.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

And and and the job is technically part like a party because you're there at the party, but it's not, you know, you do have to remain professional. And I I know I sometimes get a little cranky and I tend to get snippy, but and if you drink, that's like sometimes it's like I wouldn't even be drinking if I wasn't here. Right, right. You know what I mean? And now I'm like this deep in. I've been trying to do better with uh especially when I'm working.

SPEAKER_03 16:21

It's just too easy, but yeah, me too, because you can't you can't keep up with the life.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Well, you can't keep up with the life if you can't keep up with the life, and it also makes you pop off it differently. Um there was a frustration this past weekend, and um it was with a manager, and if I had been drinking, I would have definitely handled it differently. Yeah, I was frustrated and I told other people about it, and that's a different thing. But I was just like, bro, all you have to do is tell me. And instead of being like, I was just direct, and some people take direct as aggressive or whatever, but you get you know, my friend, my friend was telling me today, she said, I think you and I are similar, is that you're patient, you're very patient, and then when you're not, you're really over it.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

You're really just like shut up, like stop it.

SPEAKER_03 17:11

Yeah, no, I can relate to that. Um, is this all you do, DJ?

SPEAKER_01 17:16

I um I also do graphic design and marketing.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Through this whole journey, have you been doing both things?

SPEAKER_01 17:21

Pretty much. Um, well, but I've had corporate jobs that they just don't they don't work for me. Yeah. I I I'm uh generally I I've always been like the sort of uh the quirky hire, you know, like the the gay hire to like make people laugh around the office. And I was I mean, I was always good at my job, um, but it just made I just always felt like there was like a tinge of um I don't know, especially when I was working in very corporate healthcare jobs. Like the last one I worked at, my boss was like directly homophobic. So I was just like, all right, I'm leaving. Yeah. Um and then but my last job, my last corporate job was uh was doing healthcare was doing no, not healthcare, was doing uh IT support for a law firm. And it was fine, but um I don't there's only a certain amount of yelling like I can only get yelled at and not take it personally after for a certain amount of time.

SPEAKER_02 18:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Um because I mean I was working for a place with high powered lawyers and I was getting yelled at all the time. Um but yeah, but anyway, um I have been doing graphic design sort of throughout the whole process and I love doing that.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

Um yeah, and I'm also the president, the board president of a nonprofit, which is a good 25% of my time.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

Oh nice, nice. What are some sacrifices that you feel like you've have had to make while having this life?

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Relationships have been a challenge. Um I I can't really tell who's real and who's not, and I there's a lot of trust issues because I've had complicated relationships that ended up being really like just not right for me. Um but I've met some of the greatest people I've ever known through this life. But uh but some of the trade-offs are um uh mental health. Um I mean I already have mental health challenges, like they're built in, and so uh running around all over the place and not being stable and not being able to sit in one place has been a challenge. But yeah, it's also kept kept me going too, you know what I mean? Like kept me moving in this business. Um, but but yeah, and um you know, and I've had challenges with substance issues, but um I've gotten through them. But the trade-offs are definitely they can be health related.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Yeah. I think you're right. You're running, and then also with that, and then also if you are drinking too much, I feel like that's where I've had to like, you know what I mean? Like your mental health just goes into the drain if you're DJing every other. Well, now I'm doing a little bit less, but are you more of a nightlife DJ, like private DJ? What do you do, what do you do the most?

SPEAKER_01 20:26

I'm more of a night, I'm like a nightclub DJ. Nightclub, yeah. Okay, so that's another kind of yeah. Yeah, so I do and and the places I you know, the places I work at the people like know what I like to drink and you know. I know. But but um You're like I really wasn't going to today, but yeah, but yeah, but I've gotten better at saying like, hey, like not yet. Yeah. I you know, as much as I appreciate people looking out for me, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um it does it does get to be um too much. And you know, you you start and then you're like, oh I'm bored, I'll have another. Yeah. Um so it's just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:04

So well, because you can't have one.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

And then that's when my not if it's at 10 p.m. and you're working till two. You know, I mean it does it does.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

I try to get it in early so by the end I can I can drive.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Well, yeah. I mean, I'm not dri I'm not driving, but I do try to actually get it in early so that I can wake up in the morning. Because I do get up I do get up every weekday morning and work right all pretty much all day. Um, because I'm you know trying to keep the lights on. So um I don't like to wake up in the morning and feel like crap because then I'm not gonna really do much.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

Yeah, and that's all mental. There's a lot of mental health that's involved, and it kind of goes back to like what people think DJing is versus like what it actually does to your body, mind, and soul. Are your sets planned? Do you read the room? Um, like are you normally hired for a certain style that you're like, or you just you Like you're used to people know, and do you have to do you do a lot of room reading?

SPEAKER_01 22:03

Is actually it really depends. Like, I like no, I didn't I don't ever walk in prepared. Like, like like I mean like like with a with a set list in mind. Like sometimes unless I'm doing like like I've done a lot of shows where I open for like an artist, like I opened for Mika and um and Kaisa recently. So I'll put together like a group of tracks that I want to play because I just know that it's appropriate to that show. Yeah. Um I got you. But in general, I just kind of walk in. Like I I just read the room.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

So you do the read the room. And and um does that ever exhaust you reading the room, or is it like usually pretty easy?

SPEAKER_01 22:46

If it's one of my regular gigs, it's easy. Um but it's kind it's almost kind of fun sometimes walking into a gig where where you don't know what to expect from the crowd. And that you are you are asking for or that you're that you're trying to figure out what they what they want. But those are more the gigs where people hired me because I was Carl Michaels and not because I was a local DJ that would play gay music for people in a crowd. Yeah. You know what I mean? Or even like even when I was DJing at the W or like I was hired because I they knew that I was responsible, I would come in and I would play lounge music. Um but the ones that hire me, like the gigs that hire me to come in and play because I am like because of my reputation or yeah, you've been doing it for so long. It's yeah, so so that those are the ones where I walk in and I'm like, cool, let's figure out what they're looking for. Like I'm excited about it. Um sometimes it does get very exhausting reading the room.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

How well do you keep up with today's music?

SPEAKER_01 23:55

I always keep up with that's ex that's exhausting in itself, no? No, it's it's deeply exhausting. I always keep up sometimes. I just dismiss it though, because I'm like, this is I don't like this. And like unless I'm asked, like, unless I'm like asked repeatedly about it, like and most of the music that has been popular lately, I've been able to find like fun edits. Like I love Bad Bunny anyway, but it doesn't mix into a dance set that well. So I found good like edits to play or something like that. But people don't even realize that like like last Friday night, I was at a you know, a local bar that gets very packed on the weekends, and uh this guy's asked me to play Bad Bunny while I was playing Bad Bunny, and I'm like, you gotta listen, you gotta like hear it. You know, like I'm playing that right now. But it's just it's like they got sparked because it's because it didn't sound like the exact beat of the Bad Bunny song, and I'm like, Well, girl, you're in a dance club, like chill out, like yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

So that's a whole nother thing. People and their and the requests. Do you ever do requests?

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Are you like I don't want any static, so if I am able to do a request, I will. Like, I don't really want to interface with people more than once. So if they ask for a song that is reasonable that I can play, I will usually do it.

SPEAKER_03 25:17

I do love the phone thing that that you know is kind of a trend now because the less you have to come talk, like they people don't realize how hard it is to talk to them, especially if you're in the middle of mixing something, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:30

And they're and you're like, Oh my god, I I love and hate the phone thing because I used to think it was so rude, but I'm like, now I'm just like, all right, well, I don't want to come over there, so that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

And I'll just but the thing is, is like if I really can't play what they're showing on their phone, I'll be like, and then and then they're gonna come over and talk and ask, or they're gonna send another friend over, like, because they're just like, oh well, I tried. You know, it's just yeah, it does get a little exhausting, but it's the job. I mean, it's not every night that that happens, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 26:04

Well, the thing is, that's another thing that I talk about. Yeah, it depends on what you're doing, but like for the most part, I mean, I think DJs get paid pretty well, and it's funny because that's where you have to just remember. And because like I've had I've had moments where I'm like, uh, but I'm like, I'm not gonna make money, this much money in anything else. Like, I do a lot of things, right? But I'm not gonna make as much money as I can make DJing, especially like if you're doing like I've been getting really into trying to just get out of bars that don't care anymore or whatever, right? And get like what I never used to want in life was private gigs. Anything serious I didn't want when I started.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

Now I'm like, give me corporate gigs. I mean, they're the best. They pay the most. I want corporate gigs. Give me corporate gigs, give me give me the ones that pay.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Yeah. Well, that's the thing is I started doing weddings recently with a company, and it was so stuffy. Like it was so like aggressively stuffy, and and and the owner, lovely, lovely person, but was just I am just I'm a little bit more flowy kind of guy. Like, it's fine. Like, if you're working in the wedding industry, everyone talks, everyone's selling on each other, and I'm just like, I'll do my friends. And we stopped working together, and it was very it was mutual.

SPEAKER_03 27:22

So you were working for a business, yeah. So they were taking a cut from you.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Yeah. Well, they were they were giving telling me the rate, and I don't know what they were charging, but um, but now I'd rather just make that same rate and work with people who have come to me. And I and I have a process. I'm like, okay, well, you know, you send them the worksheet for the wedding, like if it's a wedding, you know, and it's people you it's usually people I know, like it's it's based on referrals, it's not based on like far out referrals. Yeah. As much as I want the money, I don't I don't want to be I don't want to build a whole wedding business. Like I like I kind of like my whole I like my process. Like I like how I have my graphic design stuff. Yeah. I like how just a little bit, whatever comes along. Yeah, but I yeah, yeah, but yes, and and I do have like a gig uh, you know, a pasted together gig business, but I'm always you know, the bills are paid. So and and you know, I do I actually do want to build like some more wedding business, and I'm talking to some friends about doing like a more um like laid-back wedding type of place because a lot of people don't really want the traditional whole crazy, you know, like full-blown wedding, the whole traditional thing, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Yeah, yeah, they want to like make it make it their own, modernize it, all that stuff. Yep. Um so you have earworms on social media. What's what's that all about?

SPEAKER_01 28:57

So I was trying to figure out how to kind of get more noticed on social media. Me and um and my friend, well, my ex-partner, but he's my best friend now. Um, but we were all we were always trying to encourage each other to do different things on social media. And he's like he's like, you should DJ live and have all of your street because I have I'm obsessed with streetwear, so I had all these hats, and he's like, hang them on the wall, wear a different shirt and a hat in each one. And and to me, it was just it was i that the the whole idea of it was sounded so onerous. Like, and I also don't really feel like DJing on camera. I don't think it's that interesting. I don't think I don't watch people do it. I I need to be that person to say this, and I appreciate all the DJs who do but but I just don't think it's that interesting. Like, I don't want to watch someone DJ. I really kind of even want to hear someone DJ. Like, we all hear so much music, and that's just me. Like, it's not that's I don't know about the general public, but I just know that it would have bored me. Yeah, so I was like, there's gotta be a different way. So I started just recording my favorite tracks um oh from over the years, and um, and just like talking about them a little bit, and then I love the earworms, yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 30:12

Yeah, yeah, I got some of the songs after that just because they're good, yeah. Good house.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Like know some stuff, you know, and like pull from you know, I I feel like I've built a good repertoire of music in my head that truly like most of these things usually do pop into my head at times. So I'm just like, oh, let me share that.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

And you get a lot of traction. I I think that's a good idea. I think there was a lot of people that like that.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

I just had my most popular one so far. It was uh a Philly artist named Ursula Rucker with uh Miguel Miggs, who's a house producer, and um Ursula shared it, and people everyone's super jazz.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Yeah, it's I think it's a great idea, I think it's a genius idea. And and I and the whole like you're saying with setting up, it's just too much work. It's like a simple idea. The earworms is a simple idea to create content to educate people and also share like music and not like have to do it quickly, do all this set up like this podcast, like it's a huge setup, you know.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Well, I mean, this is the this is wonderful, but I just mean. But no, but that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 31:16

You have to set up like that because you want to look professional if you're gonna do it. Like in sound.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

I think this is interesting. And my friend Heather, I was asking Heather, I was like, What's the camera in front of you? She's like, it's a GoPro, and she goes, This is a lot of work. And I was like, you know what? I don't mind doing work, but it just I don't I just didn't find it that interesting to watch or and even even that podcast, um you had to be it was a mixed cloud live, and there were you had to like you couldn't even get to the content after you couldn't even get to the recorded content. Like I just couldn't figure it out. Like there's certain things once once I get to a point where I just don't know, I just I'm just like, alright, I'm out. I'll use the I'll use the most I'll use the most like low tech option.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

Yeah. As long as it gets the job done.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Right.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

Yeah. How do you figure out what to like through the years, who taught you how to figure out like what to charge for things? Did anybody or is that just something you've learned?

SPEAKER_01 32:21

I've sort of acclimated along the journey. Um I have not been good with that historically. Sometimes I charge $300 for a wedding that I should have charged twelve hundred dollars for, or I mean, lots changed since COVID. Like, like prices have gone up, and I and and I've gotten less apologetic about my rate. Um it's hard because sometimes you're like, am I turning people off with this rate? But you do have to realize your value. Um, so yes, you know, once you when when when you look uh what I look at is how much do I have to bring, how long do I have to be there, how far do I have to go, and how much money are the per is the person hiring making? In you know, in my head, like I sort of feel that all of those out. Yeah. So it's basically like if this is a moneymaker for like my uh my friend uh hired me to do a thing at the art museum, um and it was for like this big art collection, like premiere. His father was the donor, and and I said, Oh, like let's do 500 bucks, and he goes, No, 1500. I love when people do that. Yeah, and he goes, No, that's he goes, that's what you're worth. That's the frame of reference here. And so, you know, sometimes you have to really feel out like the the cultural moment too, like, like for that. And and also when it's a like when it's a wedding, I'll ask the venue and things like that just to get an idea of how much they're actually spending on this situation. Yeah. Um, because you do want to get the value that you're that you're worth within reason. And if it's like, you know, if it's a friend, you you do I always do a special rate no matter what, but um and but yeah, it's it is not as I'm sure you're aware, it's not a simple just like how do you figure out how much to charge.

SPEAKER_03 34:25

You have to Yeah, no, I've been I've my story is very much like yours, and I've I'm like, all right, you know, like it's all about yourself, your value. And it because if you don't if you let it go on and as you get older and you're not valuing yourself, you actually it's like your mental health again is affected.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Like you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

You're worth that little amount of money, and you're not like one you you can bring so much. And um earlier we both said about corporate gigs, and the thing with corporate gigs is like you have to charge a lot. Like I I watch this podcast, I was trying to figure out how to quote this for this gig I was having. So I talked a little bit to to AI, and then I also watch a podcast, and the guy on a podcast, he was like, if it makes you feel uncomfortable, you're probably quoting the right number. Because if you quote like for what I was asking there, like if you go any lower than because it was like saying do it like a thousand or something, I was quoting, and it was like if you go down to 750, they're gonna think like you haven't done it before or you don't know what's they they literally if you're uncomfortable because it's uncomfortable, like when you quote a corporate gig, you're like, I really hope I'm gonna get I hope I'm not messing this up. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I hope, I hope, and you're just waiting to hear back. It's such a high number, right? And then you're like, it worked.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah, that's the thing, is like you do that.

SPEAKER_03 35:45

So with corporate gigs, always make sure you're taking a big thing. Right.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

They do they do look at it as like, well, this person, maybe they're an amateur because they're not charging me enough. Yeah. So it's that situation, too. But um, yeah, you do have to, you have to, it's it's such pricing is such a weird, delicate moment.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

And it's weird all over the place. But even back to like DJs and what we make, it's like even when I when like when it's like 200 bucks or four hours, right? We're like, but that's like good money at the end of the day. It's not bad money, especially if you don't have to bring your stuff in. And it's like, what's wrong with us DJs that we think, you know. It's late at night, it's tiring, it's it is, it is, but still, but like I feel like that how much would you I feel like there's people doing so many things for like so much deeper than DJing and getting paid so much less that are like so important for being alive.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

There's people that are making sure you get your food. There are people who are make making sure you get your deliveries, which is those are those are highly logistical things. I know they have resources to help with it, but like there's people making like like 18 bucks an hour to make sure you get your stupid, like dry shampoo. You know what I mean? Like, like it's you know what I mean? I I just made that up, but but but there's like there's people doing really intense jobs, and we're walking in and being like, What what do you want? Like, and yeah, so we we you're right.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

50 bucks an hour is a fair rate, especially if you're walking in and walking out, too. Right, like a lot of times with that, it's like you're gonna have to set up and it turns into slowly once you're counting all the hours of setup and teardown and stuff when you have your own gear.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

That's the thing, is like if we can walk into a place. I mean, we bring there's certain places we'll bring, you know, our controller or whatever. Um, it takes 15 minutes in the beginning and then five at the end.

SPEAKER_03 37:40

And then you get food and drinks, you get food and drinks.

SPEAKER_01 37:44

You know, um but it is an exhausting job though. And it's it's a weird hour. It is weird hours. It's just a yeah, yeah. Nine to two, ten to two, eight to two, whatever, or eight to one. It's just it is strange hours, but that's why we, you know, we do get paid a premium most of the time.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

Yeah, I love it. Um me too. I'm usually counting. And that's why, but like that's why, you know, when we were talking earlier that you know, I've become this karaoke and it makes it so my Friday, Saturday nights. I don't have to just like take those $200 gigs. I can actually have the night off. Right. Because I have found consistent gigs through the week that kind of like, you know, balance that. So I'm open to to to do a lot more, which is super exciting. Yeah. Because everybody does all these cool things, like you know, you do a lot of nightclubs. I'm always doing some because that's all I was doing for a long time was was DJing, but now I'm starting to bartending again and other sorts of income, so I can like those gigs that make those gigs that make me unhappy, it's time to go.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Right. You get bored you get bored with those gigs, or or and and and then you can go somewhere else. You can bartend, and then that's a different sort of energy, and yeah, you know, it's and more income sometimes. More income sometimes, and it's closer to home, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:59

What's been one of your favor you've done a lot of gigs. You have like a favorite one that stands out. Uh oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 39:07

Yeah, so there's a couple. There was one, it was in San Francisco, it was in 2000, and there was like just like 1800 people on this pier. And um it was called Kelly's Mission Rock, and it was just like a pier, and it was just they would they would have danced if I like farted into the microphone. Like they were they were they were so like they were so it was such it was such a great, it was such a great time. It was when I was on tour with this girl, um girl, she's a woman. Her name is Shannon, DJ DeJoda from Chicago, and we were called Two Bitches on Tour. We were sponsored by Porn Star Clothing. We did 40 Cities, and um, we did LA in San Francisco. That sounds fun. Yeah, we did LA and San Francisco on the same weekend.

SPEAKER_03 39:53

I had a porn star hat.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:55

Yeah, yeah. It was one of those like beach hats.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

They didn't really give us money, they just gave us clothing. It was it was it was like it was it was a paste it together tour, but it was but it was great, it was fun, and it sold it. Like we I got to play in 40 different cities across the country. So wow. Um, we didn't make that much money in each one, like our agency made a lot of money, but um, but it was fine, it was okay, it was good. It was it I got to see the whole country with with my friend, and it was great. Yeah, that sounds awesome. And then um, and then there was one where I opened for Rina Sawayama at the very last minute at at the Fillmore, and they were just like the crowd was just so hype. It was 3,000 people in the Fillmore in Philly, and it was just such a great crowd.

SPEAKER_03 40:40

That sounds amazing. Yeah, that's what you live for that's what that's what you live for as a DJ.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

And then I did um I did an event a few weeks ago for uh these promoters, uh Vicarious Love. Um they do these parties at this lumber yard in Maniock, and it's like uh they're like it's full rave, like kind of gnarly rave vibe. I love it. And um, I went in there, I played vinyl, and they went ballistic, and it it had started thunderstorming, so everyone who was outside came into this like little warehouse. It was yeah, it was it was amazing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Um, what's something that's like the one of the craziest things that have happened, if you can remember? Oh god, there's probably so many.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

There are a lot. Um, but I but they're hard to pinpoint.

SPEAKER_03 41:30

Yeah, I can imagine.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Um I was DJing at a club called Deco at this after hours event, and it used to be next to Delilah's on um Delaware Avenue, like right behind Egypt uh here in Philly. And um there was a shooting, so a bunch of people had to go into the panic room, and I think I ran out like one of the side doors or something. That's crazy. Yeah, so that's the craziest thing.

SPEAKER_03 42:01

Um It was in the c in the club that you were teaching?

SPEAKER_01 42:04

It was like a shooting at the club. I don't think anyone died or anything. I think it was just like someone shot, like but but it was like but there was like a panic room that everyone was going into. I don't remember the whole thing, but I know I was there that night. Um, but there's there's a lot of different things that yeah, but that one's pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

What's one of like the toughest events you've had to work through? Like if there was any what like a the like a tough event, like complications or technical things or I was opening for Carly Ray Jepson, it was my birthday in 2023.

SPEAKER_01 42:33

Oh wow, and all and my friend Justin came with me and he brought like a controller. Um, they at the last minute had told me they were not providing um CDJs, which they usually do for live action shows. And um, so I was using this controller and it just cut out. And I think there were 4,000 people in front of me. Like anyway, yeah. So um it was my birthday, so my friend Justin ran up. My friend Justin ran up and he goes, give him a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 43:05

You were lit. Were you lit at all?

SPEAKER_01 43:06

No, I wasn't lit at all that day. No, because I'm just thinking of how that would be like. No, I was super focused. Um, I was just trying to get that kid done. Yeah, like because Carly Ray is one of my favorite. And it's 4,000 people on the beach. Okay, good. You're smart than you're saying. I wouldn't be doing that. Um, and Justin ran up and he grabbed the mic and he goes, It's his birthday. Like, let's skim a second. And and everyone sang happy birthday. It was really nice. But that was one of the most challenging.

SPEAKER_03 43:32

But then what happened? Did you get it working?

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Yeah, I got it working. I started I played for like 20 minutes or something. It was fine. But um yeah, that was stressful.

SPEAKER_03 43:41

That's crazy, but he came through clutch.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Yeah, and there's been you know, there's been so many times where everything failed, and I'm like, Oh god, like I gotta like plug my phone in, or you know, I gotta plug my laptop into like the headphone jack and like put it out in the sun, you know, you know how like you're just that's why I carry around this big bag.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

All these different adapters. Me too.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Me too. I do now. I do now. But I used to think like, what exactly do I need for this gig? I'm going to bring this. I'm like, everything. Yeah. Just bring it all.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Yeah. Yeah. And then I have more at home. I have some in the bag, and then it's like spares at home. It's like it's crazy. It's crazy. What what do you feel is some skills that are important, more important than mixing when you're a DJ?

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Uh just understanding what the crowd's looking for, just re- looking at the people. Um I remember when I DJ'd uh with Derek Carter years ago, um we brought him to Shampoo, which was like, you know, the cool club, but it wasn't really working. Like Derek's sound wasn't working for the for the crowd that we had on Thursday night. And he said, uh he said, I was playing for these two black women in the corner. And like to be able to focus on like who's really enjoying the music, like it's a and and but like in that situation, like where if you have a particular sound that you play, but like ultimately you have to be able to figure out what people in the room want. You can't just play over their heads. And um you just try things, you know, like you just keep you you have to have this sort of it's not right away, but you have to have a bit of an innate ability to to figure out what people are there for. Yeah. Um you know, if it's a place that you're at all the time, like a residency or something, then then it is what it is. Like you're you know, you know what will work.

SPEAKER_03 45:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

Um, but if you get to a place and you can't figure out the crowd, then you're not gonna connect with them.

SPEAKER_03 45:46

Yep. Yeah, that's it's innate.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

It's really just it becomes an innate ability. Yeah. And it's lots of trial and error.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Yeah, I'll just like you have to go through different genres sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 45:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:58

You know, until you see someone's head bob, you're like, okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Right.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

That person doesn't even know they're probably bobbing their head.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Right. But they are, which means they're feeling something. You read it, yeah. You read it, you're like, okay, I see that they're like kind of into this, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:12

Yeah, yeah. And then then it just keeps on going. What should every DJ invest in first? Not every DJ, but you know what I mean. Like, what's one of the first moves if they're like, oh, I want to be a DJ? Because in 2026, it's way easier than yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

You mean like you mean as far as equipment?

SPEAKER_03 46:32

I guess like yeah, like what like so they can start learning and then start getting gigs like as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_01 46:38

So you need a laptop, you need to start buying music that sounds interesting to you. I know we all have different ways of getting music, but I think you really should start with actually purchasing it. Yeah. Um, there's certain things that you can't get anywhere else, and you're just like, I'm gonna take this from somewhere I can get it from. Um but um so the I I would start with the laptop, get to know the music that you want to hear and play, and just spend a lot of time with with that, and then get a controller and start learning the programs, you know, and start. I mean, I use Serato, I use Tractor for a while. I like both of them. You know, talk to people about, you know, also talk to others, see what you can like use their equipment, you know, go to open decks. Yeah, go to open decks and you know, see what see what works. But um yeah, um, I think I think in that order you need a laptop.

SPEAKER_03 47:40

Yeah, you basically need the music, a laptop, and a controller.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

You have to start collecting music, and then you're just then once you're comfortable figuring out what you want to put together, then you you just get a controller. You don't have to start out huge, you know.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

Yeah, you don't have to be also when you start out like doing all these tricks and sometimes people don't even you could you could be making this sick mix and so proud of what you just did, you know, and when you're when you're a DJ and you look and you're like, yeah, and then you look and you're like, no one even knows it's just that.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

And that's the thing is you're like, there's an opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

And then it comes to a point where you learn, all right, put energy into this gig.

unknown 48:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 48:16

This gig, I'm just gonna ride it out.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

That's the thing, is like I'll be playing a cappellas over top of the previous song, and this, and people are like, okay, yeah. So it if you really are feeling it that day, then do that. But otherwise, you know how much energy you have to put in.

SPEAKER_03 48:31

Yeah. Who's one of your favorite DJs?

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Derek Carter. He's my absolute favorite DJ. Um, he always has been, really, since I've ever heard him play. Um, I met him at 611 when I was working there, and I was like flirted with him, and we started talking, we hung out. Um, but he is really like he is one of the most unbelievable music mixers I've ever heard. Just he could be, you know, back in the day, this doesn't happen anymore because we're all much bigger adults than we were back then, but he could be he could be doing like a bump, he could be smoking a cigarette, drinking a shot, and he would have three records playing at the same time. And just like like just so brilliant, and and I always aspired. Um, I I always aspire for people to be like, and I've had people ask me this many times, like they'd ask me about a transition, like that on one of my mixtapes, they'd be like, What's this song? And and they'd play me this and I'd be like, Oh, that's like two songs, like two and a half songs. Yeah, and they'd be like, Oh, and I'm like, Yeah, so the fact that I like made a new song for them, like yeah, it was so and I'd ask Derek, like I would ask Derek, I would text him and I'd be like, What's this? And he'd be like, Oh, well, that's this over top of this. And I'm like, Oh wow, so you really did make a new song. Like, I can't play that song. Oh, that's cool. I like that. I like that uh interpretation. Yeah, um, so so it he just he just really has always been does he make his own music too? Yeah, he had a record, he had a record label called Classic for years and years in the UK. Um he's still one of the um biggest DJs in the world. Okay. Um Carl Cox is one of the most was another brilliant DJ, just kind of constantly like killing it. Um Stacy Poland from Detroit. We we had him a few years ago. Um DJ at Broadhall. He's he was one of he was one of my favorites because he plays this mix of like techno and house, and you know, like female vocals with house music with techno, like just I just love the mysteriousness and um yeah, those are some those are some folks. Most of my most of my heroes are pretty much like folks that came up from the underground.

SPEAKER_03 50:55

Yeah. What is a piece of advice that you wish someone would have given you back in the 90s? If if you did want it.

SPEAKER_01 51:07

Slow down and remember that this is a business. Um don't abuse drugs and alcohol as much as you as much as you have the uh as much as you have the uh that are available to you. Um not that I really feel like I mean that has been that has gotten in the way occasionally in my life, but I mean it's been 33 years and you know Yeah, no, it's it is I've gotten to hear, so I'm I'm okay. I just mean like it has, you know, it has impeded my life at certain points. Um but just don't get too wrapped up in the lifestyle and really try to stay focused on you and your music, and it really is.

SPEAKER_03 51:54

I think there's a lot of fulfilling. I think there's a lot of people too in these generations coming up that are doing exactly like what you're saying. I mean, I feel like they're probably I'm not out partying, so I don't know what they're doing like when I don't see them, but I feel like there's so many people that are trying to take it serious and yeah, trying to make their own music and trying to do this.

SPEAKER_01 52:12

They find their time to party, but it's not like it's not at every gig.

SPEAKER_03 52:15

There's something different about these generations coming than the people that came out of the 80s and 90s.

SPEAKER_01 52:20

Like we were like we were reckless. We were I mean, we were trained to be reckless.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

Well, it's like every generation has their own trauma, you know. Like our we came from our parents. Our parents like had Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:31

We drank out of hoses and shit. Like so.

SPEAKER_03 52:34

Who knows what we were doing?

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:37

I did a beer bong out of a a vacuum, a vacuum cleaner too before. Yeah, my I was like 14. I could the vacuum apart.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

I just my parents walked in on me and my friends too, and we were trying to figure out how to get high. So we we heard that you could uh that we're hearing that you could put a banana peel in the microwave and dry it out and smoke and get high. My parents walked in and we and we were screamed, we screamed, let's smoke banana. My dad's like, what are you doing? And I was like, nothing. We just ran out of that.

SPEAKER_03 53:06

So I'm gonna have one last question. Thank you so much for taking the time. I'm super excited about getting you on this podcast. Um, and I'm gonna give you the information about that event, and hopefully we'll see you on November 8th.

SPEAKER_01 53:16

Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 53:17

Um, so the last question of the podcast is how is music your hero?

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Um, music has always been my hero. I found um when I was little, I didn't have really anyone. Like I I I had a uh terminally ill mother, and my father wasn't around, my brothers and sisters weren't really around, and then after my mother passed, um I was alone because I was like weird. Like I thought I was the weird kid and I didn't fit in with like my new stepfamily and things like that. And like listening to like Denise Lopez on New York Radio, like hearing these like emotional songs, like about love, about whatever it was listening to Tony Braxton, like like it was all like super emotive and it brought out emotions that I didn't know I had, and it just really music has always been like a deeply emotional thing for me. Um, so it's really saved me.

SPEAKER_03 54:22

Yeah. All right, well, thank you, baby, off to bigger and better things, I guess. Karaoke at woodies.

SPEAKER_01 54:28

Oh, yeah, you gotta go.

SPEAKER_03 54:29

Uh we get soon. I'm good though. All right, cool. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Until next time, keep creating, keep connecting, and keep building together. Remember, we're in this together, collecting the time.